Engine rebuild with no former experience........

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03 Nov 2020 21:19 - 03 Nov 2020 21:25 #261728 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
I will remove the steering box, I plan to refurbish that too.
Cheers
Jim

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1979 450SL - 2002 XK8 4.2
Last edit: 03 Nov 2020 21:25 by Racediagnostics.

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03 Nov 2020 21:24 #261729 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Hi Markus, around 2m 40cm, but less of you remove the bonnet.
Cheers
Jim

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03 Nov 2020 21:34 #261730 by markus1971
Replied by markus1971 on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
thanks a lot, Jim,;) then I hope for you the screw of the pulley is really missing and not tored off...

best regards Markus

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03 Nov 2020 22:21 #261731 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
It was there 10 years ago when I last used it, now it's gone???
Cheers
Jim

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09 Nov 2020 20:55 #262040 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Back to work today after a walking holiday in the mountains.

Engine lifted again.

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First task was to remove the trans oil cooler pipes.

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Then the starter motor.

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Spark plugs, not looking too good, especially No1 that has had the valve guide issue. They look like they have been running too rich but CO level is on target at 1%, so burning oil from somewhere.

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Transmission dip stick, tube, vacuum line and shift rod removed.

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Torque converter bolts removed via the starter motor aperture.

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Transmission bolts removed and lifted back off, but the torque converter stayed in place.

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Cheers
Jim

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09 Nov 2020 20:56 #262041 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
The torque converter then just lifted off.

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The trans had been leaking pink fluid from the bottom of the bell housing last year till I put in some snake oil which seems to have fixed the problem. I'll replace both the shaft and pump seal though.

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I then locked up the crank shaft at the front to remove the flex plate.

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Rear cover removed.

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Crank seal plate removed.

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Finally the harmonic balancer bolt on the front of the crank. I bolted this lever on to the rear of the crank and asked Kim to stand on it while I unbolted the front, it came of easily.

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The first task tomorrow will be to fabricate a frame for this old TV to sit in to display the workshop manual in portrait mode.

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Cheers
Jim

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09 Nov 2020 23:55 #262049 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Here is an issue I spotted tonight, there is a grove on the journal of the crank shaft where the oil seal sits. Its tricky to photograph, however there is a grove that can easily be felt with my nail (the black line).

Has anyone used a sleeve here before?

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www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1980/mercedes/...t_repair_sleeve.html

www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/mercedes-ben...+repair+sleeve,10524
Cheers
Jim

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10 Nov 2020 00:11 #262050 by Rudiger
Replied by Rudiger on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Jim, I did, on Unimog V10 128 Truck engine, 141 Scania, Chevy 72 400sb and on 69 426 Hemi. Crankshaft front. easy to use, works like new.
Just use some 10 weight engine oil on the inside.
Rudiger
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10 Nov 2020 07:39 #262053 by Gullydeckel
Replied by Gullydeckel on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Good Morning Jim,

don't do that (now). Just install the new seal ring with 1 or 2mm offset compared to the former seal lip position.
I know from other engines, that for maintenance complete seal assemblies are offered where the seal ring is pressed in on a different axial position by manufacturer. Just to avoid the interference with the old running mark.

Modern seals are made from PTFE with a total different lip design and not produce marks like that anymore.

Best regards Martin
Ich bin jetzt in dem Alter wo ich meine Fehler zugeben könnte - wenn ich welche hätte
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10 Nov 2020 11:54 #262080 by Chromix
Replied by Chromix on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Hi Martin,

is it possible to position the new seal just 1-2 mm off the former position? Doesn't the seal want to move back to its former position into the groove?

Regards,
Lutz
Nur wer für den Augenblick lebt, lebt für die Zukunft.
Heinrich von Kleist
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10 Nov 2020 13:14 #262087 by wusel-53
Replied by wusel-53 on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Hi Lutz, hi Jim,

I think, it would be possible. When I changed the seal, it was so hard to get the seal in right Position. I can't belive, that the seal move back in the groove.
Viele Grüße

Thorsten

Man lernt nie aus
380SL (US-Version, Bj.84), Eura-Wohnmobil und ein ebike :-)
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10 Nov 2020 13:18 #262088 by Richard64
Replied by Richard64 on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Hey Jim,

in this case you need an other Crankshaft-Seal. The Part-Numer ist A 120 997 02 46. This Seal has, in the same position as the old one, an offset of 1,5 mm at the main Lip.
Gruß Richard

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10 Nov 2020 13:24 #262090 by Gullydeckel
Replied by Gullydeckel on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Hi Lutz,

the seal lip design is very stiff in longitudinal direction and about 2mm are enough.
But this space at least must be available. At sealing diameters of this size installing a new seal at old position is not recommended!

Regards Martin
Ich bin jetzt in dem Alter wo ich meine Fehler zugeben könnte - wenn ich welche hätte

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10 Nov 2020 13:29 - 10 Nov 2020 13:31 #262091 by wusel-53
Replied by wusel-53 on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
I think I have read in the WIS, that there is a repair size if the seal has made a groove
Viele Grüße

Thorsten

Man lernt nie aus
380SL (US-Version, Bj.84), Eura-Wohnmobil und ein ebike :-)
Last edit: 10 Nov 2020 13:31 by wusel-53.
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10 Nov 2020 15:30 #262107 by Rudiger
Replied by Rudiger on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
It’s called “offset shaft seal”. Offset simmering.
Rudiger
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10 Nov 2020 18:27 - 10 Nov 2020 19:41 #262113 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
I found that the replacement seals are slightly less deep than the original which should put the seal surface just behind the damaged surface. The original seal is 13mm deep and the replacement is ~10mm.

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I did run into a problem today, two seized bolts, more details on that later.

In the mean time here is a video of the engine being removed.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pb7fKt5dHY
Cheers
Jim

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Last edit: 10 Nov 2020 19:41 by Racediagnostics.

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10 Nov 2020 20:21 #262120 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
More progress today but then I hit a problem, two long cap head bolts that have seized and are rounded off, more on that later.

Pulley and balancer removed, Someone has been in here before me to try to repair a front seal oil leak.

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The oil leak!

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Engine transferred onto the stand.

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Pulling the crank hub off.

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It has a deep groove also, someone had been in here before me and fitted a new seal which wasn't working too well.

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A look at the timing.

Crank on 0 degrees.

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Left CAM.

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Right CAM.

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With the left cam lined up then the balancer shows this.

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Cheers
Jim

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10 Nov 2020 20:21 - 10 Nov 2020 20:23 #262121 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Some more parts removed, one small screw sheared off, that should be easy to remove or drill out.

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Water pump removed.

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Front of the engine stripped.

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OK, so here is the problem, there are two of the cap head bolts both at the rear of the intake manifold that are seized. As you can see they are long, I tried map gas and gentle pressure, then an impact and they stripped out.

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My plan is to weld on a big nut but from the way they felt I think the bolt will shear off at some point along the shaft. Because they are at an odd angle the manifold will not lift off if they shear above the level of the head.

Any suggestions?
Cheers
Jim

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Last edit: 10 Nov 2020 20:23 by Racediagnostics.
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11 Nov 2020 02:26 #262141 by Rudiger
Replied by Rudiger on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
With some luck the heat from the welding will loosen the bolt up. Try penetration oil and let it sit over night.
Rudiger
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11 Nov 2020 18:02 #262226 by Uncle Benz
Replied by Uncle Benz on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Try giving it a few whacks downwards with a large hammer and a punch. Often a shock might loosen it.
Mvh
Stian
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11 Nov 2020 19:35 #262238 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Well positive and negative, here is how it went today.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l5gp1U3QFo
Cheers
Jim

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11 Nov 2020 19:47 #262240 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
This is the bolt that made it out.

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The one I had to cut off, I think I will be able to get this out fairly easily. Th good news is there was no damage to the head.

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The other side.

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The damaged intake manifold. It's not going to be easy to get the shaft of the bolt out. Once it is out, I will need to get someone to TIG weld the damaged area to repair it. There also looks to have been a bit of corrosion to the surfaces where coolant was washing against the surface and leaking under the gasket.

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Cheers
Jim

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13 Nov 2020 21:03 #262390 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
More table space set up.

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Removed the rocker arms.

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This was a good investment.

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Next I decided to get the dip stick tube out of the way.

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It came out easier than expected.

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Then the tensioner.....

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...and manifold.

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Using a strong magnet to ensure the chain circlips don't go missing.

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Releasing the cam shaft bolts.

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Cheers
Jim

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13 Nov 2020 21:04 #262391 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Removing the chain guides, these ones are ten years old.

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Not much wear.

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Refreshing my memory before taking the heads off.

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First head, cylinders 5 to 8.

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Other head, cylinders 1 to 4, you can see cylinder 1 which had the valve guide problem has the most build up and is oily.

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Surprisingly, it also has the cleanest piston???

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The bores all look in reasonable condition with the cross hatching still visible to some degree.

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Curved guide removed.

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That's it for today.

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I did try to remove the front cover, all the bolts are out but it didn't want to come off so I will investigate more tomorrow. Perhaps the oil pan needs to come off first.
Cheers
Jim

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14 Nov 2020 21:08 #262449 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Sump off first thing today.

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There were a few plastic bits in the cruddy oil at the bottom of the sump.

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Bits of chain guide rail.

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It is what it is.

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Oil pump off.

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I couldn't get the front cover off till I spotted this bolt.:doh:

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The lower chain guides which have never been changed in 41 years.

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The oil pump chain looks to be in good condition, all the links are tight so I wont replace unless there is good advice to.

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Timing cover with the idler wheel at the top and distributer cog on the left.

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Cheers
Jim

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14 Nov 2020 21:11 #262450 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Lucky I bought a new idler wheel, two broken teeth.

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Oil pump chain tensioner also 41 years old and worn.

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Measuring the big end end axial float and then crank axial end float.

Crank was 0.21mm vs limit of 0.3mm

Big ends were 0.29 to 0.33mm vs limit of 0.5mm

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Pulling off the crankshaft sprocket.

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Seven of the pistons were 91.99mm.

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Just one was 92.05mm, which is at the large end of the standard sized pistons.

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The last thing I did was remove the first big end bearing cap nuts, but the cap didn't want to come off. I gave the studs a light taps but it didn't break free. Any suggestions on how to free it off without damage?

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Cheers
Jim

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14 Nov 2020 21:28 #262452 by markus1971
Replied by markus1971 on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Hello Jim,

very good ducumentation of your work, thank you for that. It will help me very much when i will exchange the chain guides of my engine.
Good luck for continuing the work,

Best regards Markus

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15 Nov 2020 22:09 - 15 Nov 2020 22:15 #262511 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
I removed the pistons first today, the caps are held on tightly even once the nuts are removed, an interference fit between the cap and the lower portion of the studs. It took a bit of courage to separate the first one.

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There is some slight scoring on the top side of the pistons, I was surprised that the underside was clear. Left bank viewed from the front of car.

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Right side.

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Main bearing sizes, only four shown but there are five bearings?

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Before removing the caps I made this video.



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Crankshaft lifted out.

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Cheers
Jim

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Last edit: 15 Nov 2020 22:15 by Racediagnostics.
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15 Nov 2020 22:14 - 15 Nov 2020 22:18 #262512 by Racediagnostics
Replied by Racediagnostics on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
After I measure the main bearings and piston bores I plan to send the block out to be cleaned at a machine shop, should I remove the pressure release valves or is it ok to leave them in place?

These two are the main over pressure release valve and the oil cooler over pressure valve.

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This one is the oil filer pressure relief valve.

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Cheers
Jim

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Last edit: 15 Nov 2020 22:18 by Racediagnostics.
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15 Nov 2020 22:30 - 16 Nov 2020 00:41 #262513 by Rudiger
Replied by Rudiger on topic Engine rebuild with no former experience........
Jim take everything off. After you get the block back clean all the water chanels and oil chanels. I use a brush to clean my rifles and guns. I'm taking from bad $$$ experiences.
Rudiger
Last edit: 16 Nov 2020 00:41 by Rudiger.
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Jim did a full restore of his car and of course he did not like his sun visors to be old bumpy...

Dr-DJet - 11 April 2021

im Rahmen der Tacho Recherchen stellte ich fest, dass es nirgendwo richtig oder nur...

Dr-DJet - 18 November 2018

It took till September 1981 that R107 SL received a heating system with pulsed mono or duo valves...

Frank25 - 30 September 2018

Ihr wollt wissen, wie Euer Stoff-, MB-Tex oder Lederpolster von 1979-1981 ausgesehen hat? Frank...

Sternzeit-107 - 06 June 2018

Neue Datenschutzrichtlinie nach EU-DSGVO / New data privacy declaration according to EU directives...