- Posts: 35
- Thank you received: 0
Hirschmann Antennentypen
- beule10
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Junior Member
-
Less
More
28 Dec 2004 14:28 #20679
by beule10
Hirschmann Antennentypen was created by beule10
Hallo,
da bei meinem Fahrzeug die originale Hirschmann Auta fehlte, musste ich länger suchen um entsprechend zu meinem Baujahr fündig zu werden. Vielleicht geht es anderen ebenso, schliesslich fand ich hier gezeigt folgendes Posting aus einem US Forum. Vielleicht habe ich auch Informationen in der Sternzeit, bei den SL-Freunden oder im 107-Club übersehen, dann vergesst dieses hier.
Gruss,
Bernd
These dates may be a little sketchy on the older models.
108,109,111 (68-72) These cars mainly came with a very heavy duty manual
antenna, I forget the MB specific designation but the replacement
telescope/body was the Auta 4090L, doesnt include the mounting hardware
though.
The few 108/109 I have seen with power antennas (OE) had either a 6000D
or 6000F. These were huge aluminum antenna motors with a longer mast
than we use today, I suppose because they were intended for mostly AM
use or possibly SW. There is no parts availability that Im aware of.
The inner workings look to be almost bulletproof but masts are prone to
failure. I do not recall ever seeing a power antenna stock in a 113 body
car.
114/115, 107/R107, W116 Between 1973 and 1975, All these cars used the
6000H. There were as I recall three variations, designated by the next
three numbers of the serial number following 6000. They were fully
automatic, with three section masts. Failures are most common in the
mast, or the steel drive wheel/bearing parts which tend to corrode. It
is possible on some Hs to retime the clutch over-run via moving a small
plastic cam thats part of the limit switch actuator and allow it to use
a mast from a 6000U. Other internal repair parts have mostly dried up,
but some of the old-time service places like Walter Odemer may have
hoarded a few.
114/115, 107, W116 In 1976, Mercedes for some strange reason, elected
to change all the OE antennas for the US market into semi-automatic
switch-controlled 6000H models. There was a large rocker switch
installed in the center console, and the antenna motors all have two
wires instead of the previous automatic versions three wire set-up.
Mechanical failures are the same as the earlier automatic models, but
they were less prone to electrical failure since the semi-auto design
had no electrical components internally other than the motor,
eliminating the limit switch and relay.
W116, W126, 107/R107, 123 In 1977, with the introduction of the 123
chassis, MB also introduced a new antenna design from Hirschmann. The
6000U was a smaller, lighter design evolution of the H, retaining much
of its internal design but updated. The biggest change was that all US
models were equipped with a 5-wire U variation that was controlled by a
three-position rocker switch in the console. This switch allowed the
antenna to be operated at various heights other than fully extended, or
to be switched off altogether. This system required an additional limit
switch internally. European models received a 6000U but a three wire
version without the height adjustment switch, effectively the same unit
Hirschmann sold BMW and Porsche during that period.
Failures of the 6000U are again mainly centered in the mast, and drive
wheel/bearing corrosion areas. They also had a tendency for electrical
intermittency caused by corroded or carbonized contacts of the limit
switches or relay contacts. If a 6000U doesnt always move up or down,
try tapping on the top mount or antenna body while the car is on. If the
antenna starts to run, you have this contact problem. Masts and other
internal parts may still be avilable for the 6000U. Keep in mind that
the S-class vehicles used a different mast and had a longer antenna neck
than the other platforms.
Hirschmann also offered a CB add-on conversion for the 6000U, with a
different mast and external signal splitter. The 123 and 126 were
pre-wired with a CB antenna cable for several years.
124, 126/W126, 129, 140, 201/W201, 202 With the introduction of the
W201 in 1984, MB dropped the 6000U in favor of a radically different
design - the 6000EL. The MB 6000EL retained the five wire height
adjustment feature initially. Also sold to BMW (as a three-wire model
without the height adjust option), the 6000EL is built in a plastic
housing and uses a number of plastic parts internally. This saved
considerable weight over the U/H models, and also eliminated failures of
the drive system due to corrosion. The EL also eliminated the mechanical
limit switch system in favor of a solid-state transistor driven
load-detect shutdown, along with drive wheel spring-loading to allow a
slight over-run. The nylon drive cable was given teeth, eliminating
cable slippage as a cause of failure. Mechanically, the mast will
occasionally need replacement due to jammed sections, more frequently if
the owner has used the intermediate height setting allowing the sections
to fuse together. There is a small aluminum bearing that keeps the cable
pressed against the nylon drive wheel that can wear with age, allowing
the drive teeth to slip. Also, the drive wheel itself occasionally
fractures. The rubber drive belt may slip as it stretches with age.
Transistor or other component failures of the PC assembly are also
possible, and this can lead to the unit drawing power continually,
killing the battery. Despite the longer list of possible failures, the
6000EL is by far more reliable than the previous U/H models, and may
easily go ten years or beyond wih no maintenance if the full-height mode
is used and the mast wiped down with silicone grease or spray
occasionally.
The CB option from the 6000U disappeared, replaced by a similar option
of converting the EL to cellular phone capability, again with a
different mast and external signal splitter. Not sure of the
years/chassis match-up on this one.
Finally, at some point the fender mounting was changed from a threaded
nut design to a rubber grommet-based ball/socket one, presumably to help
keep the paint barrier intact to better prevent corrosion. The chassis
ground of the head is done via a braided strap rather than relying on
the mechanical contact of the bottom mount against the underside of the
fender.
The replacement for the 6000EL is similar mechanically as I understand
it, with the exception of having moved the control electronics out of
the main housing into a separate module. I have not worked on this
version (the 6000KE I believe) nor do I know the exact dates that MB
converted their different chassis from the EL to the KE.
John Durbin
da bei meinem Fahrzeug die originale Hirschmann Auta fehlte, musste ich länger suchen um entsprechend zu meinem Baujahr fündig zu werden. Vielleicht geht es anderen ebenso, schliesslich fand ich hier gezeigt folgendes Posting aus einem US Forum. Vielleicht habe ich auch Informationen in der Sternzeit, bei den SL-Freunden oder im 107-Club übersehen, dann vergesst dieses hier.
Gruss,
Bernd
These dates may be a little sketchy on the older models.
108,109,111 (68-72) These cars mainly came with a very heavy duty manual
antenna, I forget the MB specific designation but the replacement
telescope/body was the Auta 4090L, doesnt include the mounting hardware
though.
The few 108/109 I have seen with power antennas (OE) had either a 6000D
or 6000F. These were huge aluminum antenna motors with a longer mast
than we use today, I suppose because they were intended for mostly AM
use or possibly SW. There is no parts availability that Im aware of.
The inner workings look to be almost bulletproof but masts are prone to
failure. I do not recall ever seeing a power antenna stock in a 113 body
car.
114/115, 107/R107, W116 Between 1973 and 1975, All these cars used the
6000H. There were as I recall three variations, designated by the next
three numbers of the serial number following 6000. They were fully
automatic, with three section masts. Failures are most common in the
mast, or the steel drive wheel/bearing parts which tend to corrode. It
is possible on some Hs to retime the clutch over-run via moving a small
plastic cam thats part of the limit switch actuator and allow it to use
a mast from a 6000U. Other internal repair parts have mostly dried up,
but some of the old-time service places like Walter Odemer may have
hoarded a few.
114/115, 107, W116 In 1976, Mercedes for some strange reason, elected
to change all the OE antennas for the US market into semi-automatic
switch-controlled 6000H models. There was a large rocker switch
installed in the center console, and the antenna motors all have two
wires instead of the previous automatic versions three wire set-up.
Mechanical failures are the same as the earlier automatic models, but
they were less prone to electrical failure since the semi-auto design
had no electrical components internally other than the motor,
eliminating the limit switch and relay.
W116, W126, 107/R107, 123 In 1977, with the introduction of the 123
chassis, MB also introduced a new antenna design from Hirschmann. The
6000U was a smaller, lighter design evolution of the H, retaining much
of its internal design but updated. The biggest change was that all US
models were equipped with a 5-wire U variation that was controlled by a
three-position rocker switch in the console. This switch allowed the
antenna to be operated at various heights other than fully extended, or
to be switched off altogether. This system required an additional limit
switch internally. European models received a 6000U but a three wire
version without the height adjustment switch, effectively the same unit
Hirschmann sold BMW and Porsche during that period.
Failures of the 6000U are again mainly centered in the mast, and drive
wheel/bearing corrosion areas. They also had a tendency for electrical
intermittency caused by corroded or carbonized contacts of the limit
switches or relay contacts. If a 6000U doesnt always move up or down,
try tapping on the top mount or antenna body while the car is on. If the
antenna starts to run, you have this contact problem. Masts and other
internal parts may still be avilable for the 6000U. Keep in mind that
the S-class vehicles used a different mast and had a longer antenna neck
than the other platforms.
Hirschmann also offered a CB add-on conversion for the 6000U, with a
different mast and external signal splitter. The 123 and 126 were
pre-wired with a CB antenna cable for several years.
124, 126/W126, 129, 140, 201/W201, 202 With the introduction of the
W201 in 1984, MB dropped the 6000U in favor of a radically different
design - the 6000EL. The MB 6000EL retained the five wire height
adjustment feature initially. Also sold to BMW (as a three-wire model
without the height adjust option), the 6000EL is built in a plastic
housing and uses a number of plastic parts internally. This saved
considerable weight over the U/H models, and also eliminated failures of
the drive system due to corrosion. The EL also eliminated the mechanical
limit switch system in favor of a solid-state transistor driven
load-detect shutdown, along with drive wheel spring-loading to allow a
slight over-run. The nylon drive cable was given teeth, eliminating
cable slippage as a cause of failure. Mechanically, the mast will
occasionally need replacement due to jammed sections, more frequently if
the owner has used the intermediate height setting allowing the sections
to fuse together. There is a small aluminum bearing that keeps the cable
pressed against the nylon drive wheel that can wear with age, allowing
the drive teeth to slip. Also, the drive wheel itself occasionally
fractures. The rubber drive belt may slip as it stretches with age.
Transistor or other component failures of the PC assembly are also
possible, and this can lead to the unit drawing power continually,
killing the battery. Despite the longer list of possible failures, the
6000EL is by far more reliable than the previous U/H models, and may
easily go ten years or beyond wih no maintenance if the full-height mode
is used and the mast wiped down with silicone grease or spray
occasionally.
The CB option from the 6000U disappeared, replaced by a similar option
of converting the EL to cellular phone capability, again with a
different mast and external signal splitter. Not sure of the
years/chassis match-up on this one.
Finally, at some point the fender mounting was changed from a threaded
nut design to a rubber grommet-based ball/socket one, presumably to help
keep the paint barrier intact to better prevent corrosion. The chassis
ground of the head is done via a braided strap rather than relying on
the mechanical contact of the bottom mount against the underside of the
fender.
The replacement for the 6000EL is similar mechanically as I understand
it, with the exception of having moved the control electronics out of
the main housing into a separate module. I have not worked on this
version (the 6000KE I believe) nor do I know the exact dates that MB
converted their different chassis from the EL to the KE.
John Durbin
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- strich-acht
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 952
- Thank you received: 0
28 Dec 2004 15:43 #20680
by strich-acht
/8ungsvoll
Michael
Replied by strich-acht on topic Hirschmann Antennentypen
äh ja????
irgendein Ami erzählt was von der US-Ausführung???
und 6000 heißen die sowieso alle: F für Front und H für Heck
sag mal lieber das Baujahr und ich beschreib oder bebilder dir die passende Antenne. Oder poste ein antennenbild und ich sag was das ist (Auf ebär aufbind gibt es grad wieder eine "original Pagodenantenne" die als Hit-Auto aber leider vom Wühltisch stammt.
auf Empfang
michael
irgendein Ami erzählt was von der US-Ausführung???
und 6000 heißen die sowieso alle: F für Front und H für Heck
sag mal lieber das Baujahr und ich beschreib oder bebilder dir die passende Antenne. Oder poste ein antennenbild und ich sag was das ist (Auf ebär aufbind gibt es grad wieder eine "original Pagodenantenne" die als Hit-Auto aber leider vom Wühltisch stammt.
auf Empfang
michael
/8ungsvoll
Michael
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- beule10
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Junior Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 35
- Thank you received: 0
28 Dec 2004 21:15 #20681
by beule10
Replied by beule10 on topic Hirschmann Antennentypen
Hi Michael,
also meiner ist von Mai 1980, 380SL, mich interessiert nun, welche Hirschmann ich dann ab Werk hatte, laut Ami eine Auta 6000 U.
Gruss,
Bernd
also meiner ist von Mai 1980, 380SL, mich interessiert nun, welche Hirschmann ich dann ab Werk hatte, laut Ami eine Auta 6000 U.
Gruss,
Bernd
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- strich-acht
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 952
- Thank you received: 0
28 Dec 2004 22:01 #20682
by strich-acht
/8ungsvoll
Michael
Replied by strich-acht on topic Hirschmann Antennentypen
naja, die angehängte ist eine 6000 U45 vom März 79, die dürfte in den 80er genauso gehören. Später hat sich zunächst der Gehäusedeckel von Alu auf Plastik geändert, bis dann so ca. ab 85 Vollkunststoffgehäuse verwendet wurden.
Platzhirschmann
michael
Platzhirschmann
michael
/8ungsvoll
Michael
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- beule10
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Junior Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 35
- Thank you received: 0
29 Dec 2004 13:09 #20683
by beule10
Replied by beule10 on topic Hirschmann Antennentypen
Hallo Michael,
vielen Dank für die Auskunft, du scheinst dich ja gut mit den Hirschmännern auszukennen. Vieleicht weisst du ja auch noch, wie diese Antenen innen am hinteren Kotflügel befestigt waren ? Bei mir wurde der Kotflügel ersetzt und ich kann keine Halterung etc. erkennen.
Dank und Gruss,
Bernd
vielen Dank für die Auskunft, du scheinst dich ja gut mit den Hirschmännern auszukennen. Vieleicht weisst du ja auch noch, wie diese Antenen innen am hinteren Kotflügel befestigt waren ? Bei mir wurde der Kotflügel ersetzt und ich kann keine Halterung etc. erkennen.
Dank und Gruss,
Bernd
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- strich-acht
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 952
- Thank you received: 0
29 Dec 2004 15:01 #20684
by strich-acht
/8ungsvoll
Michael
Replied by strich-acht on topic Hirschmann Antennentypen
wenn die Antennenlänge stimmt, genügt einfach unten ein kleiner Metallstreifen; ich hab das Bild nochmal vor dem komprimieren anders zugeschnitten, vielleicht hilfts. Wenn du auch noch die genaue Position des Loches oben im Kotflügel brauchst, frag ruhig nochmal.
das gibt Halt
michael
das gibt Halt
michael
/8ungsvoll
Michael
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Micha B.
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 2195
- Thank you received: 7
29 Dec 2004 15:16 #20685
by Micha B.
Replied by Micha B. on topic Hirschmann Antennentypen
Michael,
als begnadeter Autor und Wissender um das Thema Hirschmann-Antennen wäre es doch eigentlich an der Zeit für einen Artikel hier im Magazin! Was meinst Du?
Micha[ Diese Nachricht wurde bearbeitet von : Micha B. am 29-12-2004 15:16 ]
als begnadeter Autor und Wissender um das Thema Hirschmann-Antennen wäre es doch eigentlich an der Zeit für einen Artikel hier im Magazin! Was meinst Du?
Micha[ Diese Nachricht wurde bearbeitet von : Micha B. am 29-12-2004 15:16 ]
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- beule10
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Junior Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 35
- Thank you received: 0
29 Dec 2004 18:23 #20686
by beule10
Replied by beule10 on topic Hirschmann Antennentypen
Hi Michael,
super info, genau was ich suchte,
Grüsse,
Bernd
super info, genau was ich suchte,
Grüsse,
Bernd
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Adil
-
- Offline
- Premium Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 1306
- Thank you received: 3
29 Dec 2004 18:44 #20687
by Adil
Replied by Adil on topic Hirschmann Antennentypen
Hi Michael,
ich koennte auch noch eine Serie Bilder ueber eine Generalueberholung meiner Antenne spenden. Damals wollte meine Antenne nicht komplett einfahren. Sag Bescheid, falls Interesse besteht. Angehaengtes Bild zeigt z.B. das verdreckte Innenleben (87 560SL).
Gruss,
Adil
ich koennte auch noch eine Serie Bilder ueber eine Generalueberholung meiner Antenne spenden. Damals wollte meine Antenne nicht komplett einfahren. Sag Bescheid, falls Interesse besteht. Angehaengtes Bild zeigt z.B. das verdreckte Innenleben (87 560SL).
Gruss,
Adil
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- strich-acht
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 952
- Thank you received: 0
29 Dec 2004 21:52 #20688
by strich-acht
/8ungsvoll
Michael
Replied by strich-acht on topic Hirschmann Antennentypen
ja, ich weiß und nachdem das 123er Buch im Laden ist und ich seit 5 min sogar mit meiner mörderischen 2003er Steuererklärung fertig geworden bin (Grundabgaben und Energiekosten sind unverschämt gestiegen...) hätte ich ja fast Zeit, wenn da nicht die "Kleinbaustelle" wäre (Micha, du kennst sie...) auch der Fuhrpark vergammelt zuhehends. Die nächsten zwei Jahre läuft schreiberisch nur sehr wenig (MB Classic ist wegen Eitelkeit und Geldgier so eine Ausnahme). Lebt bitte damit, dass ich nach Zeit und Laune hier zielgerichtet kurze Statements gebe, es wäre schade, wenn ich das Pulver für einen hektisch recherchierten Beitrag verschießen würde.
zeitlos
michael
zeitlos
michael
/8ungsvoll
Michael
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Ragetti, Obelix116
Time to create page: 0.119 seconds