560SL "Japan" poor running engine, PROBLEM SOLVED!

Happy new year to you too, Gunter. 
Did you install all stock or oem parts? Hopefully nothing aftermarket.. Maybe one of the new parts is not working well too. If new parts would be always good there would be no warranty needed...
However, I would hook the car up to an emission tester, 
a tester showing CO, O2, CO2 and HC. 
If possible, take a picture of the screen at idle, and anotherone at 2000rpm. Please post these pics here. 
Did you check the oxygen sensor?
I battled a problem on my low miles 1980 500SL for almost more than a year, and finally I had a funny acting oxygen sensor which fooled my big time. Sometimes it can be very annoying.. 
cheers, Werner 

 

Hallo Werner,
The EHA and the pressure regulator are Bosch-parts with the correct part-number, bought at the Mercedes-dealer in my home-town. The pump-package are also original parts.
Maybe I can swap out the oxygen-sensor, but it looks brand-new. The former owner did good maintenance as well.
At the end of this month, the 560 will go to a specialised garage here in Belgium ( terrijnclassics.com/ ) who are going to go through the car to get everything sorted.

Hi, You can ask Martin...He installed 3 brandnew Oxygensensors, before one was working correct.

Hi Gunter,
the fact the oxygen sensor was swapped would rattle my cage instantly. It means someone worked already on the car, did it run nice in the time you own it? 
And, it's got to be the correct one. Not only the correct manufacturer. There's too much bad stuff out there.
But, if you made an appointment already, let's wait and see what happens. 
cheers, good luck, Werner

Hallo Werner,
Hallo Andres, nice to meet you, and thank you for contributing in this thread.

I didn't check this before, but when the engine is cold, the problems of poor running are "almost" not present. When cold, and pressing the throttle, the engine does rev up a lot better. I can still hear, or I think I hear, a bit of misfiring, but I'm not sure.

Regarding the O-2 sensor;
I do know that the O2 sensor directly impacts the EHA valve's function. (through the ecu) is that correct?

Would a fautly O2 sensor cause very lean running? (mitigated somewhat when the engine is cold, through other parameters). And then, when the engine is warm, can the O2-sensor lean out the mixture (by telling the ECU/EHA that the mixture is very rich?) to a degree that the engine does not get extra fuel when revving?
When I visited technical control (tuv) CO measurement was very lean!! 0,1% if I remember correctly, but somehow I consumed 20liters per 100km and more! even when driving gently. How can that be???

Can I trick the ECU in thinking the engine is still cold?

Werner, you said to be sure the correct O2-sensor is installed. So, can you direct me to a good source?

Also, I can see the sensor on the exhaust, but where does it plug in? I can see the line disappear in the chassis, but I can not find the plug, where it connects to the wiring-harness.

MfG

Gunter

Sorry, Andreas, not Andres

Of course...if there is a faulty o2 sensor the engine leans out. Even the exhaust rises to very hot temperatures. When engine is cold, the Sensor is off. That is the reason why your engine runs better when it is Cold. By the Way...the groundsetting  ist probably not ok...That causes the missfiring.
the connector of the sensor is inside the Chassis on the right side in the footwell

Andreas,
I did on several occasions get a "exhaust temperature" warning light. That does point to hot exhaust gasses, lean mixture burns hot, no?

What do you mean by "groundsetting?" Ground of the O2 sensor?

To get to the plug of the O2 sensor, I have to remove the black plastic liner inside the passenger side wheel-housing? This is what you mean by "footwell?" Or do I reach it from inside the cabin?

MfG

Gunter

By the way, Andreas, If I unplug the O2-sensor, but leave it in place, would that be a method of checking if the mixture "holds" (does NOT lean out) when the engine is hot?

MfG
Gunter

Exhaust Temp ist bei Japanern ein Grasbrandsensor und hat mit dem Motorlauf direkt nichts zu tun. wenn der Sensor anspricht dann ist vermutlich der KAT zerbrochen und verstopft den Auspuff, war bei mir auch so. Daher die Überhitzungsmeldung

Hallo Rolf, Danke für den Beitrag.
What is the difference between a exhaust-temperature thermometer, and a "gasbrandsensor?
MfG
Gunter

Das ist dasselbe, es wird nur angezeigt ob der Kat zu heiss ist, weil in Japan viele Parkplätze auf Grasflächen sind. 
und ein defekter gebrochener Keramikkat verstopft den Auspuff und laesst dieser überhitzen

Hi,

do youve 0.4 Bar differential pressure on EHA without electrical connector now ? If not, forget all other anlalysis on oxygen sensor.

Hi Gunter,
a faulty oxygen sensor can of course lean out the mixture. 
If the warning light for the exhaust/ catconv temperature lights up it is for sure not normal. My 560SL, US-model, never had this light up. The exhaust overheating could be caused by either a very lean mixture, or, way too rich mixture which burns in the exhaust melting the converter, worst case scenario.
But, if your car runs better when cold and starts running bad when warmed up, this points to the fact as long as the "choke" is active the mixture seems to be okay. It will lean out when warm. You will see this on the emission test sheet, if you have one. 
Maybe your converter is clocked already.. I just remember experiencing something like this on a E240 S210. It took me a while to realize the problem, I did unscrew the downpipes from the headpipes on both sides, just a bit to release the pressure from the exhaust, and the car ran fine, just a bit louder than normal  . 
This car had no power at all due to one bad converter. 
The emission test was showing lean mixture as well.. 
You will find the wiring for the sensor on the passenger side, if you would sit there, on the r/h side of the tranny tunnel, straight down from the gear selector. This is where the rubber grommet is, where the wires enter the inside. Just follow them to the plug.
cheers, good night,Werner
 

Hi,

if lower chamber pressure is indeed that close to upper chamber pressure as was measured before with disconnected EHA, fuel mixture will be extremely lean and cause overheating exhaust. In critical situation this can and will even destroy catalytic system. If you do not beleive, ask MartinG .

With disconnected EHA oxygen sensor has no influence on mixture.

Hallo Volker,
Last time I measured (single line, 2 separate measurements) I had a lower pressure of 5,86 bar (85psi), and an upper pressure of 6,34 bar (92psi). So a pressure differential of 0,48bar. (EHA-valve not energised/ line not attached.)
I installed a new pressure regulator, so this evening I will measure again, if I find the time.
MfG
Gunter

Verstanden, Rolf!
Well, the car drove reasonably well when I first saw the warning light, so I think the origin of the "lean-mixture" is to be found elsewhere.
Thanks
MfG
Gunter

Hi,

this gets too confusing for me. I never saw you write of 0,48 Bar differential pressure before. It was close to 0 and that is why you decided to swap pressure regulator.

Werner
I'm as good as 100% sure that the mixture (when engine warm, as I found out this week) is too lean, not too rich.
Andreas said that the O2-sensor (lambda) does not function when the enige is cold, and that a "lean mixture" burns quite hot, what would explain the warning light "exhaust temp" (although Rolf disputes this, yes, Rolf?)

To recap;

When I bought the car, the car started very well (cold and warm), with a stable idle (cold and warm)
When getting to know the car I experienced a hesitation to rev out when applying FULL throttle. (not always, but certainly noticable)
I also found that when pushing the car a bit harder that the exhaust temp light came on.
I found a small short-circuit on the "kurbelwellensensor" which caused the engine to cut out entirely.
I then performed a few maintenance jobs, and then took the car on a 400km trip with no problems (aside from the hesitation at full throttle and the exhaust temp light)
Consumption was quite high at 20 litres per 100km.

I then started reading up on the KE jetronic, and removed the EHA-valve to check the condition of the 2 green O-rings.

And for whatever reason (green O-rings were ok!) from that moment on, the problems started.

I then measured upper and lower pressure on the distributor (but I measured wrongly als Volker pointed out), but it prompted me to change out the tank-filter, (lots of rust in the tank) the pump-package, the EHA valve and the pressure regulator.

But the same problems are still present.

By chance (this week) I experienced that the car revs up quite good when the engine is cold, and that (suddenly) when the engine reaches a certain temperature the engine does not want to rev up anymore.
So I must conclude that there is sufficient pressure and flow from tank to injectors (tank WILL be cleaned/changed to remove all the rust).

So today I phoned the Mercedes-dealer and ordered part A0075425217 (lambda-sensor) at about 113eur.
Delivery in 3 days.
We'll see....

Volker,
When you told me I measured wrong (by simultaneously attaching the line to the cold-start outlet and the checkvalve) I re-measured, after installing the new EHA, so with a single line to the cold-start outlet (6,34bar), and then at the check-port (5,86bar)
Will measure again this evening, because now there is a new pressure regulator as well.
Mfg
Gunter